Date: 11/29/98
From: Charles J. Erion cjeann@jps.com
I was wondering about Sam Houston. What record is there of his visits to the Alamo before and after the battle of February - March 1836 and what sort of comments did he have about his visit(s)?
Charles J. Erion
Nevada City, Ca.
Subject:Re: Alamo Lake
Date: 11/30/98
From: Thomas R. Kailbourn tkailbourn@infoblvd.net
As an addendum to Gary Zaboly's comments: An 1849 watercolor of the rear of the Alamo church by Seth Eastman (collection of the Witte Museum) clearly shows an expanse of water very close to the east side of the structure.
To see the real Seth Eastman sketch , perhaps the most accessible publication is the booklet, The Republic of Texas, edited by Stephen B. Oates (Palo Alto, California: American West, 1969; reprint of a special Texas Republic issue of American West magazine), p. 23. At the time of publication, the Eastman watercolor was at the Witte Museum; I presume it still is.
I don't think the "Alamo lake" was anything more than occasional standing water in a depression through which the Alamo acequia flowed. There are plenty of early accounts of standing water problems in Alamo Plaza during the rainy seasons.
Thomas R. Kailbourn
Wellsville, NY
San Antonio sits atop the Edwards Aquifer, a vast water-bearing limestone deposit that once fed numerous natural springs in the area. Even the San Antonio River had its origins in nearby San Pedro Springs. We tend to think of the San Antonio River as being somewhat murky, but as early naturalists reported, the water was once so clear, that you could see all the way to the bottom. On one occasion, it's said that a priest expressed concern because local Indian girls insisted on going skinny-dipping in the river. Apparently, the clarity of the water did little to conceal them.
With the growth of San Antonio and the surrounding area, the water reserves were depleted to such an extent that the springs in the area have mostly dried up. As you pointed out, the area is also prone to flooding. In 1819, the river flooded and nearly decimated the villa including the area surrounding the Valero Mission.
What's interesting though, is the area immediately in front of the Alamo Chapel. This is the location of the alleged "Alamo Well" [See: Green Jameson's Map]. It turns out not to have been a well at all. It was instead a natural depression that served as a landfill and was used from as early as the "mission" period indicating that the area may have been dry by then. Geological studies also concluded that there might have at one time been a natural spring immediately in front of the Alamo chapel. [This report is scheduled for publication here.] The limestone in this area is characteristic of the "water-bearing" type that is associated with a spring. In all probability, this natural depression was also another intermittent "lake".
Subject: Mexican's Assault
Date: 12/01/98
From: Simon Haines simon5890@aol.com
Did the Mexicans ever make a serious attempt at assaulting the Alamo before the final assault, or was it just skirmish actions that occurred beforehand and if so what size and where casualties taken by either side? And to whether Crockett surrendered or not, does it really matter? He had already proven himself by being in the Alamo.
Simon Haines
England
Subject:Francisco Becerra's Grave
Date: 12/01/98
From: Brian Huberman
[Editors Note: This was a personal response I received after following up on Mr. Huberman's original query. I publish it here because I know it will be of interest to our readers and perhaps aid him in his search. R.T. ]
Thanks for the note regarding my search for Becerra's grave-site. So far I have received a little feedback. Roger Borroel has contacted the Brownsville Chamber of Commerce and some other sources about Confederate cemeteries and Gerron S. Hite, Cemetery Preservation Coordinator, History Programs Division, Texas Historical Commission wrote the following:
"If my memory is correct, the remains at the National Military Cemetery in Brownsville were all moved to the National Cemetery in San Antonio. I would assume the National Cemetery was a web-site."This is as far as I have been able to go. I have not yet located a website for the National Cemetery in San Antonio but have the feeling that Becerra's remains are still on the border.
I did locate the grave of George M. Dolson, author of the famous "Dolson" letter containing an account of Crockett's death. He is buried in section one of the Oakwood Cemetery in Austin. Visitors should turn right at the main gate and proceed along the fence-line for about 75/100 yards. The grave stone is crumbling but Dolson's name is still visible. I'm glad I was able to film the marker because it won't last much longer.
So many of these markers are turning to dust. Last July I located & filmed the grave of Reuben M. Potter in the Evergreens Cemetery in Brooklyn, New York. Made of black slate the inscribed slab has almost been totally obliterated by time and the elements, (not to mention the actions of unruly neighbors who inhabit nearby crack-houses.)
Any help with finding the grave-sites of Becerra, Ramon Caro, Cos and of course, de la Peña would be much appreciated. Also, where in Paris was Juan Almonte buried?
Thanks for the interest.
Sincerely,
Brian Huberman
Subject: Celestial Phenomena
Date: 12/01/98
From: W.L. McKeehan
Bexar resident Samuel Maverick, in his diary from within Bexar during the first and most important Battle for the Alamo (Siege and Battle of Bexar) in late 1835, writes on 17 Oct:
"13th was the day on which the military broke the figureof San Antonio, and on the 14th the comet was seen in the west 45° above the horizon, its train reaching 1/4 over the visible firmament."What does "broke the figure of San Antonio" refer to? Which comet was this as we know them today?
W.L. McKeehan
Houston, TX
"Break the figure" is an English idiom that, like so many have fallen from use. Another way Maverick might have said it was that the military "upset the apple cart" of the citizenry of San Antonio. The appearance of the Texian army, comprised mostly of Anglos, decidedly disrupted the relative serenity of the mostly Tejano community.
Ralph Waldo Emerson used the term in his "Twelve Essential Essays" When he wrote:
"...like votaries performing some religious dance before the gods, and, though in convulsive pain or mortal combat, never daring to break the figure and decorum of their dance..."As for the comet...believe it or not, it was Halley's Comet. It could be seen clearly with the unaided eye from September 23, 1835 until February 18th,1836. Halley's Comet appears an average of every 77 years with its earliest recorded sighting being by Chinese astronomers in 230 B.C.
For centuries people believed that a comet came as a harbinger of disaster. This was certainly the case for those in Bejar in late 1835 and early 1836. Or perhaps the comet's appearance signaled the impending defeat of Santa Anna's army.
HALLEY'S COMET
Subject: Re: Celestial
Phenomena et al
Date: 12/02/98
From: Jake Ivey jake_ivey@nps.gov
In reference to W.L. McKeehan's question about breaking "the figure of San Antonio," I have always assumed that Maverick meant that Mexican soldiers accidentally broke one of the stone santos placed in the two lower niches of the facade of the church. These were described as San Francisco and San Domingo in the 1772 and 1793 inventories, but it was common for the santos to be identified incorrectly. I read the line as an indication that Maverick read the breaking of the "San Antonio" statue and the presence of the comet as omens of the darkest days of the town.
I noticed while looking at your versions of my old articles about the cannon positions at the northwest and southwest corners that you changed my date of the arrival of the Flying Company at the Alamo to 1803. Then I found an exchange in the Forum back records about the arrival date. My apologies; I didn't realize that no one had seen the official letter acknowledging the Company's arrival.
The governor of Texas, Nemesio Salcedo, wrote to the Commandant General on January 5, 1803, reporting the arrival of the Flying Company on December 29, 1802. He stated that he had assigned them to the mission of San Antonio de Valero because of the limited housing in the Villa de Bejar. He said that he considered the mission to be a good location for the Company, because of the numerous buildings there that they could use. The families of the company, he added, were living in the existing houses within the plaza of the mission, but there weren't enough of these and the soldiers were building other, temporary houses. The document is in the Bexar Archive Microfilms, roll 30, frames 947-49. It's hard to read, because this is a book of first drafts of correspondence, with a lot of corrections to get the wording right before the final copy was made. I recall that there are two different versions of the letter in the frames I cited.
I have assumed that the new houses built by the company were probably along the northern section of the east wall of the plaza, with no particular evidence to support this ... well, on thinking about it there might be something ... I'll look in the files.
While I'm on your site, I might as well ask you: in your history of the Flying Company (a good one, by the way) you mention that in 1809 "834 varasof battlement" were added to the existing walls, and that this work included the south gate structure. What's your source on that?
Jake Ivey
Santa Fe, NM
Go to lengthy interchange on this subject.
Date: 12/03/98
From: Ron D'Ambrosi Deguell0@aol.com
I know that Jim Bowie was killed in a room along the low barracks, but how did he die? Is the eyewitness account of Bowie dying underneath his covers accurate? Personally I feel that it is, because Bowie was reported to be only a short [time] away from death and he wouldn't had been aware of the final Mexican assault on March 6, 1836. Did Bowie manage to get off one pistol shot as Kevin Young suggested?
Ron D'Ambrosi
Brooklyn, New York
Subject: Death of Bowie
Date: 12/04/98
From: W.L. McKeehan
Great questions! Let's give equal coverage to the other two members of the mythical Holy Trinity (Travis and Bowie) of the Second Battle for the Alamo [see second question below]. "Spirit" Crockett is getting far two much attention. Equally controversial accounts exist for both "Son" Travis and "Father" Bowie, or should it be vice-versa, the death of both are equally deserving of at least one book and historian career. Travis has gotten a little dues lately (War Room on Joe's Account of his Death), but Bowie is lagging.
To my knowledge, Bowie appears to have the same three general theories as the other two: 1. Taking out enemy until the last breath; 2. Suicide; 3. Cowardly hiding and/or surrender; 4. Brutal execution/mutilation after capture. Bowie has some slack on the latter three since he was sick.
I may not have these all straight from memory, but seems I have heard the following at one time or another:
1. Ruiz: dead in bed in a side room; 2. Sutherland: brains and blood on the wall near his cot; 3. Servant and [Susanna] Dickinson: shot multiple times through the head while lying prostrate on the cot; 4. Navarro or other women survivors: multiple bayonet mutilations while prostrate, carried out on bayonet tips while alive; 5. Mexican officer?: died a coward hiding under cot; 6. ???-shot himself, to sick to fight; 7. Zuber: brought to El Presidente alive on cot, Bowie scolded the Dictator as a traitor to Mexico in such Castillian eloquence, his tongue was cut out and he thrown on the funeral pyre alive.
Related to this month's War Room question, I am beginning to conclude that we do not know much more truth about detail of the Holy Trinity's last moments than the other Defenders for which there are fewer accounts. If only the walls could report. I am interested in anything on individuals of the Gonzales Alamo Relief Force and their last moments.
BTW, how many Battles for the Alamo have there been prior to March 1836? I consider the Battle for Bexar in late 1835 the most important one, but can we consider the Las Casas and Gutierrez-Magee actions an earlier two as well?
W.L. McKeehan
Belaire, Texas
I don't think we can. The Las Casas incident wasn't really FOR the Alamo per se, it was more of a local power struggle between opposing political factions. Besides, it was the officers of the Alamo Company who apprehended Governor Casas putting and end to the brief struggle. To my knowledge, there was no battle for the Alamo during the Gutierrez-Magee Action either. The military in Bejar gave up without much of a struggle before the enemy even entered the Villa. They guessed (and wrongly so) that they were going with the winning side. The insurgents did take up residence in the Alamo, but I'm sure it was by invitation. At the time, 2nd Lt. Vicente Tarín was the commandant of the Alamo Company. He was on such friendly terms with the insurgents that he joined them and was promoted to the rank of Captain. Others followed suit, while others simply desserted.
Let's not forget Adina de Zavala. Now that was a battle!
Randell Tarín
