 | Subject: Mexican Artillery
Date: 12/09/98 From: Chris Sokol falconpa@clearnet.net Why didn't Santa Anna use a sustained bombardment? I understand that an infantry assault is eventually required to take a fortified position, but it seems more openings could have been created. This might have resulted in less casualties. Was his ammunition low or did Santa Anna feel his cannons did all they could do? Chris Sokol
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The key to the Alamo battle is that Santa Anna did not wait for General Gaona to arrive with the large 12 pounder cannon. The siege was conducted with howitzers, designed to throw exploding shell over the works(and the shell's themselves to explode over the heads of the enemy). The larger cannon would have been employed to hammer down the rest of the works. Considering the fact that the Mexicans had moved a battery within two hundred yards of the Alamo's northern defenses, the arrival of these guns would have turned the Alamo into a pile of abode.
Then why the assault before the larger caliber cannon arrived. Certainly, from Pedro Ampudia's ordnance report, the Mexicans were not low on powder, shot or shell. Then why? Perhaps Santa Anna wanted an impressive battle to added to his laurels as the Napoleon of the West and to avenge his brother-in-laws defeat. Or maybe he was worried that Fannin, Williamson and others would get into the Alamo and make the garrison much stronger? (Santa Anna gives this as part of his reasons in his memories). Or maybe, as de la Peña and others noted, the garrison was ready to surrender and Santa Anna did not want to be denied a battle/victory?
Of course, the answer lies in the personality and mind of Santa Anna. We will never know his real reasons. It is enough that any other commander would have probably waited and blasted them into submission. Unfortunately for three hundred Mexican soldados, Santa Anna would not wait.
Date: 12/13/98
From: W.L. McKeehan
What is the background and provenance of material in the work, The Life of David Crockett, The Original Humoristand Irrepressible Backwoodsman. An Autobiography. A. L. Burt Co., New York (copyright 1902 by E.A. Brainerd), also reprinted by Citadel Press? Also, Col. Crockett's Exploits and Adventures in Texas, Written by Himself (Philadelphia, 1836)?
Did Davy Crockett actually keep a diary, if so where is the original?
W.L. McKeehan
The Adventures of Davy Crockett In Texas is a fake, written by a Philadelphia publishing firm and published in the year of his death. If you take a hard look at the Alamo section you will note that it is very similar to Almonte's Journal, which had been published in a New York paper that summer. The publisher's claim that the "original" was found at San Jacinto. While I am certainly not one of the crowd that claims everything is a fake, in this case, we have a winner.
The other Crockett books were written in several years before his death and were authorized by Crockett as autobiographies, although it appears that some one else may have written them. The best overview of the history of the Crockett books can be found either in LaForo's "Crockett at Two Hundred" or Paul Hutton's introduction in the Bison Press edition of the "Narrative".
Kevin R.Young
Subject: Alamo Survivors
Date: 12/15/98
From: Ron D'Ambrosi
A Texian newspaper reported the stories of two men [who] claimed to have been survivors of the Alamo battle (one who was badly wounded). Is there a strong possibility that these reports are factual?
Is the Henry Warnell survivor theory accurate or was it part of a land grant scheme, as Thomas Ricks Lindley has stated? Could Louis Rose have fled the Alamo during the battle itself as theorized by Wallace O. Chariton?
Ron D'Ambrosi
Brooklyn, N.Y.
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Subject: Re: Alamo Survivors
Date: 12/16/98
From: Ron D'Ambrosi
comments: To Ron D'Ambrosi:
I ran across references to survivors, as well, and tracked down an article in the Nacogdoches newspaper, something like two weeks before any other reports of the fall of the Alamo, telling about the arrival of two men from the Alamo, one badly wounded, who said that the fort had fallen and everyone had better vacate the country, because Santa Ana was on his way. It sounds like the one you're thinking of. I can't imagine a circumstance that would lead a newspaper in Nacogdoches to falsify such a report, so I've always taken it as an indication that a few defenders got out during the last hours.
Jake Ivey
Santa Fe, NM
Subject: Ethnicity at the
Alamo
Date: 12/15/98
From: Ron D'Ambrosi
Were there any other ethnic groups representing the Alamo garrison besides Tejano, Anglo-American, African-American, English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German and Danish? Were there any Italians, Austrians, Croatians or Norwegians at the Alamo?
Ron D'Ambrosi
Brooklyn, N.Y.
This subject was broached some time ago by a Mr. Martin Smith of England. I think he answered it quite well. However, we would welcome any other input from our readers.
Subject: Re: Bowie's death
Date: 12/15/98
From: Ron D'Ambrosi
But what is the consensus of historians? Do they believe that Bowie fought to the death, died in bed or died of his disease before the Mexicans poured into the Alamo plaza?
Ron D'Ambrosi
Brooklyn, N.Y.
From John Bryant:
According to Mexican sources, "the braggart Buy" died in bed hidden under the covers. That would lead me to believe he was either already dead or was too sick to put up a fight. There are many stories concerning his death from the fanciful to the absurd, most likely he was killed while unconscious or in a state of delirium.
From Kevin R. Young:
The quote attributed to Bowie's mother is a great one: "Jim is dead-I wager they found no bullet wounds in his back." But alas, plenty of Bayonet holes in the front. Personally, I think Bowie was probably still alive at the end, but very much unable to make the heroic last stand that the movies have shown (except Price of Freedom and Heroes of the Alamo).
Over the years, the pile of Mexican soldados has grown to epic numbers till the whole scene resembles the famous Marx Brothers ship cabin scene in "A Night at the Opera." You have to figure that at least one soldado was smart enough to fire his musket or rifle instead of rush in. Most of the Mexican accounts are negative because they clearly did not understand that Bowie was ill: they were reacting to the fact that he was found in a dark room on a cot. As is the case with the Crockett zealots, the simple fact that he died at the Alamo is what is important.
Date: 12/16/98
From: Stanley Lind Jr.
In the period that the battle took place, was it not customary when doing rolls that the sick and wounded would not be counted in an aggregate total of a particular unit? I have contended for 15 years that the total number of defenders was probably 230 to 250 men. Case in point: At least sixteen messengers left the Alamo. They should be added as part of the Feb. 23, 1836 roll. Also, [there were] at least eight men in hospital, plus two doctors, I believe. Officers are usually not included in general rolls. If I'm not mistaken, there seemed to be no mention of numbers of officers and/or men just men. By the way, I've had somewhat of a difficult time finding all the men with Captain Patton as mentioned in Dr. Sutherland's recollections. He also puts the number of men at 172 on Feb. 23, 1836. One last question and point, the famed 32 from Gonzales, was that officers and men or just a simple total as recollected years later?
Stanley Lind Jr.
Illinois
The number 32 refers to those individuals in the Gonzales Relief Force, the only men, officers and otherwise, who fought their way in to aid the Alamo garrison after it was surrounded, who actually died in the garrison. The relief force which originated in Gonzales was comprised of members, both officers and enlisted men, of the Gonzales Ranging Company of Mounted Volunteers, who were mustered under direction of Byrd Lockhart, Commissioner for the Provisional Government of Texas. Three officers accompanied the force, Lt. Kimble, who was officially commander of the Rangers, Capt. Albert Martin, a member of the garrison who was in Gonzales as a courier, and Capt. Byrd Lockhart (a survivor on a courier mission).
The Relief Force consisted of only 10 individuals, nine of whom died in the Alamo, on the muster roll of the Ranging Company while 3 members on the roll were in the garrison (and later died there) prior to arrival of the force. Lt. Col. Travis was actually attached to! the Gonzales Ranging Company as their superior commander. Of the 13 members on the roll, two were officers, Lt. Kimble and Capt. Lockhart. It is generally accepted that 31 documented members of the Relief Force died in the Alamo, John G. King, the 32nd, was later found to have remained at home north of Gonzales having been persuaded by family to allow his 16 year old son to accompany the group without him.
Seventeen more individuals in the Relief Force, all casualties, were residents of Gonzales or the surrounding DeWitt Colony region and although not listed on the official muster roll, are usually considered members of the Gonzales Rangers. Multiple members of the 30 could also be considered members of the Alamo garrison, most are thought to have been at home in Gonzales on leave or as couriers when the garrison became surrounded. In fact, it is not completely certain whether all 31 actually left Gonzales as part of the force or whether some were in the garrison at the beginning of the siege or met the group along the way.
Members of the garrison as Bexar residents and members of the DeWitt Colony and Gonzales Municipality moved relatively freely between the two sites apparently up until the last moments of the defeat, an intercourse because of proximity and common problems on the western frontier of Texas was normal and much more frequent than the intercourse between Bexar and the Austin Colony to the east and south. Only one member of the Relief Force, David Cummings, was not a resident of Gonzales, but joined the group on the way to Bexar. There are reports that more individuals joined the group between Gonzales and Bexar, but is unclear how many this would have been or whether they were simply Gonzales residents and members of the garrison counted among the 32 that happened to be outside between Bexar and Gonzales when the garrison was surrounded.
Eleven other DeWitt Colony residents who died in the garrison are thought to have been there when the siege began (3 were on the Gonzales Ranger muster roll). At least 7 more DeWitt Colony residents at one time or other survived as couriers and foragers who were outside the garrison at the final moments, but had participated in the defense at one time or another. It is possible, even likely, that the Alamo Relief Force may have been larger than a total of 31 due to those unaccounted for who joined in Gonzales and on the way to Bexar and may have died in the garrison or even survived by departure before the end. However, according to current collective records and eyewitness reports, it is unlikely that this number was sufficiently large to make a substantial difference on the current estimates of total Alamo defenders.
Amid the debate of detail of why the more visible heroic Alamo icons were there, how they died, could they leave, and why others as Houston and the more well to do land and slave owners of the east and south were not, there is little room for debate about purity and clarity of motive and mission of the Immortal 32 who fought their way into the garrison, more than a few understanding, that short of a miracle, they would never leave again.
Wallace McKeehan, Consulting Editor, Alamo de Parras
Editor, The Sons of DeWitt Colony Texas
You might have [also] noted the Gonzales 32 are the only volunteer group currently recognized to have made their way into the Alamo. There may have been others after March 2nd. Check Tom Lindley's work on the subject.
The Mexican figures of 250 to 270 Alamo defenders are just too consistent. There were probably more inside the Alamo than just the 189 number. The list of dead will continue to grow and shrink, but I think the number will be higher than the current number.
Kevin R. Young
Where can I find his arguments
and data? Have they been published or presented somewhere? I know there
is evidence for numerous individuals who probed the Mexican lines and groups
at various stages of organization that may have been on the way, at least
to a more serious extent than Houston and his cronies, but most were not
sufficiently decisive and clear in organized action as were the Gonzales
force. Somewhere I saw that Lindley also stated that John Kellogg and Jerry
Day did not die in the battle, but there were multiple individuals of the
same or similar name, same family in some cases, e.g. Jr., Sr., I, II,
III and unrelated in others, in the archives. Have they been properly dissected?
Wallace L. McKeehan
So, it would appear that people did get out in the final crush. As Paul Hutton and others have pointed out, there is nothing uncommon or un-heroic about this: Several of Custer's command tried to fight their way to the river: British officers and other ranks attempted to fight their way to Fugative's Drift at Isdhlawana: the last Foreign Legionaires standing at Cameron tried to fight their way out as well. So why not at the Alamo?
Kevin R. Young
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Subject:Re: Number of Defenders
Date: Sat, Dec 19, 1998, 1:59 PM
From: Stanley Lind Jr. sjjrs@famvid.com
Unfortunately, you still have not answered my question on how the roll calls in the Travis letters were defined. Were there not differences made on officers and men, able bodied and sick/wounded, Texian volunteers/regulars and Tejanos. As I indicated in a previous note, Travis stated he had 150 able men ready to fight. Yet, Dr. Sutherland in his memoirs, stated that there were 172 men in the Alamo on February 23,1836. I do agree more men were picked up by the 32 from Gonzales.
By the way, how many men did Capt. Chenoworth, Capt. Seguin et al have with them on the Cibolo river waiting to go to the relief of the garrison.
One last item, I have always felt that, based on standard doctrine at the time, each of the three separate groups camped on the Cibolo, would they not have sent in word via messenger(s), and/or recon the way into the Alamo.
Stanley Lind Jr.
Illinois
